[Metal Gear Solid] Konami remembers it used to make games - Page 16 (2024)

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      Morninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular

      November 2023 edited November 2023

      I actually was disappointed with the octocamo cos while it is very convenient it also removed all of the thought from the mechanic.

      And I like thinking. About mechanics, while playing, about story, about characters. Realistic or silly, I'm all for it.

      They're all good stuff.

      Morninglord on

      (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.

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      Dirty Registered User regular

      November 2023

      I mean, there's not much thought by the player other than "This one makes the number go up."

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      Morninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular

      November 2023

      I don't know how to explain to you the enjoyment I get out of analysing an area and figuring out which is the camoflague that will best suit the majority of it and change my approach to it if you don't already understand why that is fun.

      (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.

      +1

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      Karl Registered User regular

      November 2023

      I am currently playing MGS3 HD.

      I have the old Xbox HD collection (so MGS2, 3 and peace walker).

      MGS3 is excellent though I do struggle with the controls sometimes. It all feels a bit clunky.

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      Dirty Registered User regular

      November 2023

      Snake Eater 3D probably has the most modern feel of all the different versions of MGS3, since it's basically running on the Peace Walker engine. Definitely not the prettiest version though.

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      Jazz Registered User regular

      November 2023

      MGS Master Collection on PC has patches for all games addressing the problem of them potentially running at too-high speeds. I've not run into this but iirc it was related to Alt-Tabbing out and higher-than-60Hz displays.

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      BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular

      November 2023

      Between a run through the Master Collection, BGIII, Robocop, and Star Ocean Second Story R, my PS5 is going to get the sh*t kicked out of it over the next week that I'm off from work.

      No matter where you go...there you are.
      ~ Buckaroo Banzai

      +5

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      manwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular

      November 2023

      Prohass wrote: »

      4 is my least favourite just cos it was frustrating to play at the time and it’s various contrivances didn’t help. I also found the settings the least enjoyable of the series. I would however love for a good remaster because I feel like it’s the most in need of the quality of life stuff that would provide, that and I haven’t played it since it launched

      It's kind of weird since of the main games, its the one I play the most to goof around with the different weapons and paths through the various areas. It's the largest map in the series to date with the least backtracking, it just doesn't FEEL that way since the story is movie-cutscene paced.

      A casual playthrough clocks me at around 5-6 hours while MGS1 I usually can beat in about half that time.

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      Morninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular

      November 2023

      4 has an insane level of detail and granularity to the stealth.

      (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.

      +3

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      AbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular

      November 2023

      In MGSV you can have your chopper blast Gloria over loudspeakers when it drops you off on the battlefield. I think that pretty well makes up for any shortcomings.

      [Metal Gear Solid] Konami remembers it used to make games - Page 16 (12)

      +6

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      Dirty Registered User regular

      November 2023

      MGSV is a game of extremes for me, as it is my least favorite in terms of story and presentation, but the core gameplay is fantastic. It could have done with some more bosses, and forcing the player to replay a bunch of missions just to see the real ending is kinda sh*t design, but beyond that, all my complaints are on the narrative side.

      +4

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      BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular

      November 2023

      Some guys are just a different breed:

      [Metal Gear Solid] Konami remembers it used to make games - Page 16 (15)https://youtu.be/t4e7ibdS7xU?si=KLQZoo4AVQuNtlVJ

      No matter where you go...there you are.
      ~ Buckaroo Banzai

      +4

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      BahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod

      November 2023

      cloudeagle wrote: »

      At some point I'm really going to have to get past my mental block and play Metal Gear Solid 5. My blocks in this case are how apparently it's obvious the game is unfinished, and Quiet. Just... Quiet. (It didn't help that I saw the video where Kojima insisted that once we knew Quiet's backstory, we'd feel feel bad for criticizing her design. And then I saw the video where Kojima very intensely fondles a Quiet action figure.)

      you really don't have to get past it! those are good reasons to not pay money for it! the unfinished story and quiet really are terrible!

      [Metal Gear Solid] Konami remembers it used to make games - Page 16 (17)

      +2

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      Synthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular

      November 2023 edited November 2023

      Ninja Snarl P wrote: »

      I guess "cohesive" in the sense that you know that Event B happens because of Event A, but overall it's still a big pile of nonsensical mush. Basically every major character has a backstory constructed of nonsensical bullsh*t, though it's particularly egregious in the form of Deadman who doesn't get to have a "soul" because he developed in an artificial womb rather than a natural one. That's just a nasty idea in a couple different ways.

      The game is at it's strongest when you're cruising over a detailed landscape on an electric bike to a neat soundtrack and by far at it's weakest when it's overexplaining stuff that's convoluted nonsense anyway.

      It turns out, after a few decades of historical revisionism suggesting, "Hey, maybe those wacky Germans were onto something when they invaded the Soviet Union and obliterated twenty million people, I'm not saying they didn't do some bad things, but maybe that wasn't one of them," as being a mainstream if not majority opinion, and an academic and intellectual philosophical foundation for the Cold War, "The Russians (ahwooooo!) have a walking nuclear armed tank and they've taken over some artificial island and is it actually the Russians (ahwooooo!) or is it a private military company hired by an ancient cabal of pharmaceutical and banking giants secretly backed by the Americans and the Russians (ahwooooo!) and ghosts are actually nanomachines, betrayal-son," while probably not externally rational or internally consistent (even if it were attempting to do so), is still an easier sell than, "After the apocalypse, North America sank into the black gunk ocean, which still rains from the sky. Everyone lives in bunkers, because otherwise the black gunk rain whales will get them. Go bring this country together, Forest; do it for your mother, the president. Oh, and there's a lady who can teleports, so you think she'd do it a lot better."

      It's a stacked comparison though; Death Stranding hasn't even gotten its sequel yet (which in all likelihood will augment it much the way the Metal Gear Solid sequels augmented their predecessors). It means, putting aside the out-of-body black gunk whale bullsh*t, there's a structurally coherent narrative going on, maybe, but how we actually came to that point, if you're interesting in that sort of thing, is a nightmare even by Kojima's standards. And the moral questions it "examines" (that might be a little overly generous) aren't really handled much better than those in Metal Gear Solid.

      At least MGSV, and Death Stranding, having control schemes that I didn't immediately hate the second I started playing the game. So I have to give them credit for that.

      Synthesis on

      +1

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      cj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular

      November 2023

      Dirty wrote: »

      MGSV is a game of extremes for me, as it is my least favorite in terms of story and presentation, but the core gameplay is fantastic. It could have done with some more bosses, and forcing the player to replay a bunch of missions just to see the real ending is kinda sh*t design, but beyond that, all my complaints are on the narrative side.

      Personally I love how the story is presented, I just wish it had more content.

      [Metal Gear Solid] Konami remembers it used to make games - Page 16 (20)

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      MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular

      November 2023

      Is the consensus that MGS4 has been lost to the sands of time?

      I am in the business of saving lives.

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      shoeboxjeddy Registered User regular

      November 2023

      MegaMan001 wrote: »

      Is the consensus that MGS4 has been lost to the sands of time?

      There are competing rumors about it being in the Vol 2 Collection or not.

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      Ninja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular

      November 2023

      cj iwakura wrote: »

      Dirty wrote: »

      MGSV is a game of extremes for me, as it is my least favorite in terms of story and presentation, but the core gameplay is fantastic. It could have done with some more bosses, and forcing the player to replay a bunch of missions just to see the real ending is kinda sh*t design, but beyond that, all my complaints are on the narrative side.

      Personally I love how the story is presented, I just wish it had more content.

      At one point I had to listen to a bad guy non-ironically talk up how an upright-standing Metal Gear would be a game-changer just like it was for upright-standing apes because...reasons. Also, a load of garbage about a disease built to kill based on the sounds made by the specific language it was programmed to. All the while playing as an imposter Big Boss made through completely made-up bullsh*t hypnotherapy and surgery, but you don't get to know that until way late. And the less said about having to play through that f*ckawful hospital sequence f*cking twice, the better.

      Just like MGS2, a sh*tload of overconvoluted nonsense posing as complicated story but basically being a huge waste of time. Just a damned shame that a game with deep, satisfying, interesting gameplay is shackled to such incredibly sh*tty writing. No clue why Kojima is obsessed with a bait-and-switch main characters, though, just let us play the characters we're there to play.

      +2

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      manwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular

      November 2023

      MegaMan001 wrote: »

      Is the consensus that MGS4 has been lost to the sands of time?

      There is both placeholder art for various timeline / manual materials released through STEAM, and data hackers found code relating to MGS4 in the installer. It will also likely include MGS5, Peace Walker, and Metal Gear: Acid.

      +2

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      BahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod

      November 2023

      God I wish it were

      [Metal Gear Solid] Konami remembers it used to make games - Page 16 (26)

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      Morninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular

      Those are the best parts of MGSV yes. I wish he'd had time to finish more of them.

      (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.

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      el_vicio Registered User regular

      November 2023

      Ninja Snarl P wrote: »

      cj iwakura wrote: »

      Dirty wrote: »

      MGSV is a game of extremes for me, as it is my least favorite in terms of story and presentation, but the core gameplay is fantastic. It could have done with some more bosses, and forcing the player to replay a bunch of missions just to see the real ending is kinda sh*t design, but beyond that, all my complaints are on the narrative side.

      Personally I love how the story is presented, I just wish it had more content.

      Also, a load of garbage about a disease built to kill based on the sounds made by the specific language it was programmed to

      Nah that's cool. I enjoy that sh*t, just like I did in Pontypool and Snow Crash

      +3

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      Morninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular

      November 2023

      MGSV has a lot of cool ideas.

      (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.

      +1

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      Bursar Hee Noooo! PDX areaRegistered User regular

      November 2023

      Not among them is an in-mission monologue that traps you with a single speaker spouting backstory at you for so long that your controller goes to sleep as it drives you in real time from one side of the map to another.

      Counterpoint: the tape deck exposition at least lets you play a resource-gathering mission while you listen to it. If all of Wind Talker's stuff was in a cutscene... Brr, I don't want to consider it.

      GNU Terry Pratchett
      PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
      Hit me up on BoardGameArena! User: Loaded D1

      Spoilered until images are unborked. [Metal Gear Solid] Konami remembers it used to make games - Page 16 (31)

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      Morninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular

      November 2023

      *looks left and right, beckons you over closer and whispers conspiratorially*

      "Actually I kinda like that part too. Shhhh."

      (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.

      +1

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      Jazz Registered User regular

      November 2023

      Still better than that one 45-minute long codec call in MGS2.

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      Dragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular

      November 2023

      Main thing I remember about IV was that the ending was like an hour long.

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      Jazz Registered User regular

      November 2023

      Longer, iirc. It was pretty much a feature film length ending.

      +1

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      AbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular

      November 2023

      The important thing to remember about MGSV is it's funner than hell.

      [Metal Gear Solid] Konami remembers it used to make games - Page 16 (39)

      +4

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      Fencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular

      November 2023

      AbsoluteZero wrote: »

      The important thing to remember about MGSV is it's funner than hell.

      MGSV has such a stark difference between the quality of gameplay and quality of narrative that it's utterly astounding.

      Whatever Kojima does is not for me, but the designers he employs are top notch.

      +2

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      Handsome Costanza Ask me about 8bitdo RIP Iwata-sanRegistered User regular

      November 2023

      Dirty wrote: »

      This Quiet stuff got me thinking. Adding on to my previous point that I disagree that only Kojima can make MGS, I also don't even trust Kojima to make MGS now. Dude was absolute gold and just the right amount of crazy and pervy. I've never been afraid to admit I enjoy cheesecake, but only at MGS1-3 levels. Sixaxis boob jiggle and photographing psycho supermodels was a bit too much, and Quiet is a f*cking embarrassment. MGSV is one of the only games I was ashamed to play with my wife around. I don't even hide my p*rn from my wife.

      I also feel like Kojima is gaming's George Lucas. He's got good ideas, but his best works are collaborative, with other people willing to point out which ideas don't work. Then they both became living legends, their genius unquestioned. That version of Lucas gave us the Prequels, and that version of Kojima gave us the later MGS games and Death Stranding. Well crafted games full of great ideas that are being strangled to death by batsh*t stupid ideas.

      And to continue the comparison, there is a chance that post-Kojima MGS would be the gaming equivalent of the Disney era of Star Wars. But I'd rather someone try and fail. Worst case scenario, we still have the good games that already exist. Best case scenario, they make something special.

      The prequels weren't that bad and the same people (sans GL ofc) who were making all the star wars stuff you liked are the same people making Star Wars content in the "Disney era"

      Funny how when people like a Star Wars thing it's Lucasfilm, when they don't like a star wars thing suddenly Lucasfilm doesn't exist and it's just Disney, regardless of the actual timeline and who was involved.

      There actually was a good comparison in there regarding studio interference and creator intent, but you just blew right past it.

      Anyways, there's no doubt in my mind that outside of the original hardware itself MGS2HD from the master collection on PC is easily the best way to play that game now. There were mods on like day 1 that cleaned up a majority of the issues with Konami's lazy effort and then some. It's definitely a lot better than trying to emulate a PS3 so you can play the HD collection.

      Nintendo Switch friend code: 7305-5583-0420. Add me!
      Resident 8bitdo expert.
      Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.

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      cloudeagle Registered User regular

      November 2023

      Handsome Costanza wrote: »

      Dirty wrote: »

      This Quiet stuff got me thinking. Adding on to my previous point that I disagree that only Kojima can make MGS, I also don't even trust Kojima to make MGS now. Dude was absolute gold and just the right amount of crazy and pervy. I've never been afraid to admit I enjoy cheesecake, but only at MGS1-3 levels. Sixaxis boob jiggle and photographing psycho supermodels was a bit too much, and Quiet is a f*cking embarrassment. MGSV is one of the only games I was ashamed to play with my wife around. I don't even hide my p*rn from my wife.

      I also feel like Kojima is gaming's George Lucas. He's got good ideas, but his best works are collaborative, with other people willing to point out which ideas don't work. Then they both became living legends, their genius unquestioned. That version of Lucas gave us the Prequels, and that version of Kojima gave us the later MGS games and Death Stranding. Well crafted games full of great ideas that are being strangled to death by batsh*t stupid ideas.

      And to continue the comparison, there is a chance that post-Kojima MGS would be the gaming equivalent of the Disney era of Star Wars. But I'd rather someone try and fail. Worst case scenario, we still have the good games that already exist. Best case scenario, they make something special.

      The prequels weren't that bad and the same people (sans GL ofc) who were making all the star wars stuff you liked are the same people making Star Wars content in the "Disney era"

      Funny how when people like a Star Wars thing it's Lucasfilm, when they don't like a star wars thing suddenly Lucasfilm doesn't exist and it's just Disney, regardless of the actual timeline and who was involved.

      There actually was a good comparison in there regarding studio interference and creator intent, but you just blew right past it.

      Anyways, there's no doubt in my mind that outside of the original hardware itself MGS2HD from the master collection on PC is easily the best way to play that game now. There were mods on like day 1 that cleaned up a majority of the issues with Konami's lazy effort and then some. It's definitely a lot better than trying to emulate a PS3 so you can play the HD collection.

      I think you're going to be one of the few people to stand up for the prequels, which are generally considered a big step down from the original trilogy. (The third one is pretty good, but whoof, so much bad in the first two.)

      Switch: 3947-4890-9293

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      Dirty Registered User regular

      November 2023

      I'm not saying "Disney bad! Lucasfilm good!" I'm calling it the Disney era because that's what it is. Star Wars after Disney bought it. I've actually really enjoyed some of the SW content of that era, but it's hard to deny that it's suffering from overexposure and wild inconsistency. It has it's bright spots (Mando S1-2, Andor, and the Respawn games come to mind), and it's low points (Obi Wan, Episode IX, Solo, and IMO Rogue One).

      I was comparing MGS fans who think that you can't have MGS without Kojima to SW fans who think you can't have SW without Lucas. I was pointing out how things weren't always that great, even under their beloved original creators. So who cares if things might not be great moving forward? Why not let a new team take a crack at it?

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      Dragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular

      November 2023 edited November 2023

      I mean that begs the question is Disney gonna let them do anything that doesn't revolve around the Skywalkers in some way?

      Sad that you got this whole big galaxy and we're kind of just stuck looking at the same story from different angles.

      But Darth Vader is cool and gotta sell that merch.

      Dragkonias on

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      klemming Registered User regular

      November 2023

      To bring it away from movie discussion, what else could they do with MGS? They've filled just about every possible point on the timeline with games about the various Snakes, it's hard to see what a hypothetical MGS6 could be about.

      Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.

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      Dirty Registered User regular

      November 2023

      I wouldn't be opposed to a full reboot. I think it'd be cool to do a broad strokes remake of MGS1, just to open it up with something familiar. Keep it similar enough that you could just as easily slot it in with the original MGS2-4 and still work narratively, then take it in a completely different direction for its sequels. Kind of like how the new FF7 trilogy uses the original game as a starting point for a new story. But without the time travel nonsense or the original game being required to understand what's going on. I don't need an in-universe explanation for why the story is different this time.

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      cloudeagle Registered User regular

      November 2023

      You know, we already have gotten Metal Gear Solid without Kojima. Remember Metal Gear Solid Revengeance? Sure, it didn't feel exactly like Kojima, but it retained the general spirit of the franchise pretty well. Or at least I don't remember Internet people claiming it ruined their childhood or whatever.

      On the flip side there's Metal Gear Survive, which was technically batsh*t but didn't feel like a Metal Gear kind of batsh*t.

      So it can be done, it just takes some talent and care.

      Switch: 3947-4890-9293

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      Dragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular

      November 2023

      Personally I would just like to move on with a new protagonist.

      Reboots are fine but I get tired of people being afraid to simply move their stories forward.

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      Paladin Registered User regular

      November 2023

      The failure point here is the Konami Pachinko Corporation. They potentially reversed their mobile game / microtransaction course with corporate restructuring in 2021, but it's not like you can change an entire ethos in a few years, so the next Metal Gear game is more likely to be akin to Survive than Revengeance. Note that Hideo Kojima still had top level decision-making control of the franchise, including who would steward it, for the entirety of the production of the game. Also don't forget that in addition to Kojima, pretty much all the top level Metal Gear Solid brain trust left Konami during that entire debacle.

      One of the hallmarks of the Metal Gear Solid games is the ridiculously intricate and superfluous "this works?" game mechanics, which will be the hardest to replicate in an environment not supported by a director empowered to encourage the team to mess around. This is pretty much in the same vein of what likely got Kojima the boot from Konami, so them sponsoring a team to do the same kind of stuff is pretty unlikely.

      Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
      Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.

      +1

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      Jazz Registered User regular

      November 2023 edited November 2023

      Handsome Costanza wrote: »

      Anyways, there's no doubt in my mind that outside of the original hardware itself MGS2HD from the master collection on PC is easily the best way to play that game now. There were mods on like day 1 that cleaned up a majority of the issues with Konami's lazy effort and then some. It's definitely a lot better than trying to emulate a PS3 so you can play the HD collection.

      With cloud saves and the "too fast" issues now patched in and out respectively, and with the incredibly simple resolution mod (obviously the latter I didn't bother applying on my Steam Deck as the resolution is already right, but it was welcome on my PC), MGS2 & 3 on PC Master Collection are pretty delightful now and I'm really happy with them. (Caveat: so far. I've not completed either yet. MGS3 I've played on both machines, MGS2 just Deck so far. Played through Virtuous Mission and the Tanker.)

      There's definitely tweaks I'd hope MGS1 will get - most likely from modders again - and still a couple I can think of for 2 & 3, but I'm definitely happy with the PC release a couple of patches in and with a couple of very simple tweaks. And I say that as someone with the HD Collection on Xbox already as well.

      Jazz on

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